Friday, September 10, 2010

Scala: Lift vs. Play! For Web Development

If you're interested in doing Web development in Scala, have a look at my Stack Overflow question and even more importantly this thread that I started on the Bay Area Scala Enthusiasts mailing list.

In it, there are some choice quotes from David Pollak such as:
In terms of Lift and older browsers, Lift doesn't support them (or at least it doesn't support them well.) At the end of the day, in order to use a Lift app, you need a modern browser (IE 6+, Firefox 1.5+ or WebKit-based [Chrome, Safari])...

Put another way, with 99%+ of the apps people are writing in Lift, they will live in a single JVM...

[When I asked whether a user's session (such as the contents of his shopping cart) was lost when new code was deployed to the server because of the statefulness of Lift, David said] Most of the site deployments that I do in production are during well defined maintenance windows in which the entire service is shut down. I realize that there's a class of services for which that's not acceptable, but the vast majority of sites (the bottom 98% or so) are going to be cool with the maintenance window. If that's not acceptable, there will be a commercial Lift Cluster Manager...

As a practical matter, the deployment and crash scenarios that folks raise are premature optimizations because in the real world, nobody notices (or cares to complain) when Lift sessions stop and are restarted elsewhere.
I'm feeling a little down since I was flamed pretty badly in that thread. Obviously, people in the Python world either like or at least tolerate me a lot more than people in the Scala world.

Anyway, my current plan of action is to learn the Play! framework and Akka. Both look very interesting and very polished. I'm hoping to find a job coding in Scala, but since I've ruled out Lift, my prospects are looking even more slim ;)

5 comments:

Mr Darrin Eden said...

wow! i'd blow a gasket if someone said as much to me in that context.

Anonymous said...

JJ, 'st ong' comes across as a complete asshole in his post. A large part of evaluating any OSS project or language is discovering the attitudes of the developers and users on the mailing lists. I hope for Scala's sake that 'st ong' is the exception.
- Tavis

Shannon -jj Behrens said...

Hey, Tavis, none of my experiences with the Scala world have been very inviting so far. I'm hoping that will change because I really like Scala.

germán said...

That's sad to hear. I have had a very good experience with the Scala community.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, you need to get off your computer more often, the guys just trying to get some info. I did not see anything in his posts that could be construed as being a "complete asshole".

I myself also want to find out more about Scala/Lift. Does that mean I need to do a poll on people's attitudes before I ask any questisions? And what if the poll says 90% religiously pompous Java/Scala pricks. Does that mean I have to kiss ass to get answers?

Very Lame!